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So, this second man competing in slaughtering was Petar Brzica? That name sounds familiar to me, but I can't recall from what source. I'm further confused you found that article on a russian website, as you put it. Then the claim Brzica was added among Nazi Germany criminals, which isn't true - he part of Independent State of Croatia. I won't get into the said man's psyche, but as you initiated the background of the entire story behind the founding of the regime in Croatia at the time, I'd like to hold onto that, because I consider it important.
 
So, this second man competing in slaughtering was Petar Brzica? That name sounds familiar to me, but I can't recall from what source. I'm further confused you found that article on a russian website, as you put it. Then the claim Brzica was added among Nazi Germany criminals, which isn't true - he part of Independent State of Croatia. I won't get into the said man's psyche, but as you initiated the background of the entire story behind the founding of the regime in Croatia at the time, I'd like to hold onto that, because I consider it important.
   
You may disagree with this what I'm about to say, but Serbs carry at co-responsibility for coming to that. In this section I'll explain why. Have you heared of 6 January Dictatorship (Croatian: Šestosiječanjska diktatura, Serbian: Шестојануарска диктатура / Šestojanuarska diktatura)? That was one of the events that fueled already unstable political state in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia - before that the assassination in the National Assembly in Belgarde in 1928 preceded it. It is important to note the future leader of Ustaša movement, Dr. Ante Pavelić, was present there as the member of the Croatian Rights Party. But, back to 6 January Dictatorship. It was introduced by the king Aleksandar I. Karađorđević on January 6th 1929 (that's how it gets its name). It included, but was not limited to: absolutist power, persecution of political opponents, ideology of so-called "integral Yugoslavship", Octroyed constitution and other.
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You may disagree with this what I'm about to say, but Serbs carry co-responsibility for coming to that. In this section I'll explain why. Have you heared of 6 January Dictatorship (Croatian: Šestosiječanjska diktatura, Serbian: Шестојануарска диктатура / Šestojanuarska diktatura)? That was one of the events that fueled already unstable political state in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia - before that the assassination in the National Assembly in Belgarde in 1928 preceded it. It is important to note the future leader of Ustaša movement, Dr. Ante Pavelić, was present there as the member of the Croatian Rights Party. But, back to 6 January Dictatorship. It was introduced by the king Aleksandar I. Karađorđević on January 6th 1929 (that's how it gets its name). It included, but was not limited to: absolutist power, persecution of political opponents, ideology of so-called "integral Yugoslavship", Octroyed constitution and other.
   
 
Meanwhile in Italy, Dr. Ante Pavelić establishes UHRO, Ustaša - Hrvatska Revolucionarna Organizacija. In English: Ustasha - Croatian Revolutionary Oganization, which will later become known as Ustasha movement. There, he begins training troops at italian military training camps. Situation in Kingdom of Yugoslavia remains practially the same in the following years.
 
Meanwhile in Italy, Dr. Ante Pavelić establishes UHRO, Ustaša - Hrvatska Revolucionarna Organizacija. In English: Ustasha - Croatian Revolutionary Oganization, which will later become known as Ustasha movement. There, he begins training troops at italian military training camps. Situation in Kingdom of Yugoslavia remains practially the same in the following years.

Latest revision as of 00:21, January 23, 2019

Before I start my reply, sorry for being so late with it. There were some difficulties, such as I did wrote the reply this morning, a very extensive one,  and when I pressed Reply button, it didn't sent it, and of course it disappeared, so this is actually a completely hand re-written one. There were some issues with internet connection as well, but its all fine now, I hope.

So, this second man competing in slaughtering was Petar Brzica? That name sounds familiar to me, but I can't recall from what source. I'm further confused you found that article on a russian website, as you put it. Then the claim Brzica was added among Nazi Germany criminals, which isn't true - he part of Independent State of Croatia. I won't get into the said man's psyche, but as you initiated the background of the entire story behind the founding of the regime in Croatia at the time, I'd like to hold onto that, because I consider it important.

You may disagree with this what I'm about to say, but Serbs carry co-responsibility for coming to that. In this section I'll explain why. Have you heared of 6 January Dictatorship (Croatian: Šestosiječanjska diktatura, Serbian: Шестојануарска диктатура / Šestojanuarska diktatura)? That was one of the events that fueled already unstable political state in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia - before that the assassination in the National Assembly in Belgarde in 1928 preceded it. It is important to note the future leader of Ustaša movement, Dr. Ante Pavelić, was present there as the member of the Croatian Rights Party. But, back to 6 January Dictatorship. It was introduced by the king Aleksandar I. Karađorđević on January 6th 1929 (that's how it gets its name). It included, but was not limited to: absolutist power, persecution of political opponents, ideology of so-called "integral Yugoslavship", Octroyed constitution and other.

Meanwhile in Italy, Dr. Ante Pavelić establishes UHRO, Ustaša - Hrvatska Revolucionarna Organizacija. In English: Ustasha - Croatian Revolutionary Oganization, which will later become known as Ustasha movement. There, he begins training troops at italian military training camps. Situation in Kingdom of Yugoslavia remains practially the same in the following years.

October 10th 1934, king Aleksandar I. Karađorđević goes to Marseille to state visit and is being assassinated by Vlado Černozemski, otherwise Bulgarian descent, who was a member of VMRO (Macedonian: Vnatrešna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija), Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization. VMRO was closely connected to UHRO, as both supported ideas of establishing independent states that brought them closer together.

When Yugoslavia capitulated in 1941, the Independent State of Croatia is founded and declared. We know it was an ally and "satellite state" of Nazi Germany. Let me review back here: There's no denying that not only Croats were dissatisfied with how they were treated in common country. Of course, there were some individuals or even groups of individuals who so much craved for revenge. Their bitterness was justified and understandable, but their later actions definitely weren't. I already said I do not approve violenece of any kind and by anyone.

And this is the point where we come to the establishment of various concentration camps. One of them being the notorious camp Jasenovac, which was named "Sabirni logor Jasenovac" (Jasenovac concentration camp), but it was also a work camp. It's infamous for its official number of around 70,000 - 80,000 victims, depending on the sources of which some also claim that number reeaches up to 700,000 and even 1,700,000 victims.

Now we come to another crossroad - what's fact and what's fiction. If there is even one innocent victim, it's TOO MUCH, but the research and exhumation of Jasenovac camp were never conducted, at least not throughout. There is a list of allegedly killed people, which, believe it or not, continues to change to this very day. How? I myself believe the list is a pure forgery, because there are no physical evidence of mass liquidations and the changes being made on this list through history to these days. I'll name a couple of examples. One being the fact that there are 'clones' on this list - people with exactly the same name, some repeating from multiply to even dozens of times, of some having only certain information altered so that they aren't completely same, such as place of birth and such. One of those names is Ljuba Radosavljević, being repeated 17 times, all 17 being killed in different parts of Jasenovac (it was divided into sections by numbers). Second example is subsequent addition of names to the list. Let's take for example a man named Stanko Nik, who died in 2012 and then was posthumously added to the list of victims. Current prime minister of Croatia, Andrej Plenković, was at his funeral. Died in 2012 and being accounted as the victim in 1940s - one of the forgeries I've mentioned. I'll name one more example of how else they forged the list. It's adding the names of people who have been killed elsewhere. They put in people who died in Germany, in Poland and many other places I cannot all mention. So much about the list, now to the camp itself. I said earlier the site was never excavated thoroughly and there are almost none to none evidence at all of mass liquidations, only stories and assumptions. 74 years have passed and we still don't know the truth.

My conclusion: first the Serbian rule in first Yugoslavia oppressed all other folks, Croats included, which led to making resistance movements, one of them being Ustasha movement, previously called UHRO. During the war, all sides were committing crimes, Allies and Axis powers and supporters of both alike. We know how the war ended, and there's that fabulous saying: "History is written by the winners." That statement is kinda absolutistic as well, as it doesn't question the veracity of the claims. I prefer the cause-consequnce relationship, as it unequivocally clarifies some things that happened and led to other things. I will always say that if we're talking about consequences, then we must talk about causes too, but that's something people simply choose to ignore, only seeing, hearing and minding what they want. I'm not that kind of person - I'm willing to accept anything as long as it's true and is proven and those proofs are solid and based on (historical) facts, and not on somebody's opinion. I'm most sincerely regretting and condemning the cruel acts and crimes committed by my folk at the expense of others. At the same time I condemn all proven actions committed by others against my people. After all, we were constantly under foreign rule ever since 1102, and NDH, whatever it was, it was also the first breath of freedom for Croatian folk, and every human on this planet knows the freedom is priceless.

There's still more to this topic, so much in fact that I couldn't write it all down here, so if you want to continue chatting, just say. I'm in.

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