Hey man, I digged a little bit further about that Facebook post case. Now I've found some other sources that claim some different things about the controversial photo. I thought you'd want to know. I'll name those differences now.
Here's one of those other claims. I QUOTE: "On the photo is not, as some published, Maks Luburić and neither it is based on historical facts. (Ivan) Đakić [the fella who published the photo] took the photo from the film of a director Svetlana Petrov from year 2015, which actually depicts ustaša warrant officer (in our languages 'zastavnik' or 'viši narednik', eng. alternative 'sergeant major') Ante Friganović 'Žile' holding a head of an (unspecified) Serb, along with typical serbian morbid fairy tales that he slaughtered 1100 Serbs in just one night." UNQUOTE.
Now, if we want to know the truth and/or how much of it is true or untrue we would have to check certain things, such as: 1. What film (as the name of the film is not stated), 2. Identity of the both persons from the image, no matter was it real or framed (as it is claimed in mentioned text) and what its source is, and 3. The credibility of both statements.
Now, I did hear about some other man in ustaša ranks with whom he allegedly competed how many people can they slaughter in one night. This other guy, whose name I do not know, killed around 1300 people, beating his "highscore" by approximately 200. It was supposedly happened at concentration camp Jasenovac. I believe you heared of it.
My personal views of this are filled with either a lot of uncertainty or doubt, or both. Something did happen, but I don't know what and to what extent. Personally I am very skeptical of the claims that one man ALONE is able to slaughter over 1000 people in just one night. Slaughter, not execute with firearms. From time to time he would get exhausted, and there's also a time period and time of year, as well as we don't know at what time (in hours) this "competition" began. But, let's say the night lasted 10 hours, and in those 10 hours these killers would have to slaughter; 110 people per hour the first one, and 136 people per hour the other one. Now, if we really want to know for sure, we would need to conduct an experiment of that. Not on real people, of course - dummies or something to see if that's possible. Like I said at the start of this section, I'm filled with doubts and uncertainties about this whole story. I do believe something did happen, and there were executions at the camp, but all these obscure details make me suspicious. Like I said in your thread on my wall, I condemn all violence, no matter who committed it, but I'm trying to remain realistic at the same time.
What do you think about all this? I know it can be a tough and painful topic to comment.
Well, I did an image search of the photo, and I got Petar Pero Brzica, which is the one who killed "over a thousand people" in one night as a competition. I'm kinda interested in finding out who both of these people are.
I found this on a Russian website with the image from the Facebook post.
"Peter Brzitsa: the worst executioner of the Second World War
About the terrible crimes of Nazi Germany against the prisoners heard any educated people. Against this background, the actions of the Nazi allies seem to fade into the background and are much less known to the general public. One of the bloodiest minions of Hitler's Germany were the Croatian nationalists of Ustashi, who formed the revolutionary movement of the same name. Peter (Petar) Brzitsa, who was in their ranks, "became famous" for having executed 1,360 captured Serbs in one night.
The establishment of a pro-fascist dictatorship in the country was warmly welcomed by the 24-year-old Peter Brzitsa, who violently hated Yugoslavia and the Serbs. What was the cause of such hostility, manifested in childhood, is difficult to say. Some researchers argue that in many ways the internal political processes in Yugoslavia and the position of the Croats influenced the mood of the young man. The fact is that most of the government posts were occupied by the Serbs, and over time, among the radical part of Croatian society, there was a widespread belief that their rights were being violated. All this has led to the emergence of a stable national hostility towards the Serbs, which then evolved into universal hatred. Against this background, associations appeared after the rain, calling for radical measures against the Serbs. They attracted many young people who easily succumbed to xenophobic propaganda.
One of them was Peter Brzitsa. He was influenced by nationalist ideas while studying at Franciscan College. After replacing several radical organizations and disappointed in them because of their inaction and empty demagogy, the young man finally found what he needed. He becomes a faithful dog Pavelic, who was just in need of people who were fanatically loyal to him personally, ready to break anyone under his orders. After the defeat of Yugoslavia and the mass capture of Serbian servicemen, Ustashi creates a network of concentration camps Jasenovac. This place was perfect for Brzitz, who was impatient to realize his sick fantasies. On the night of 28 to 29 August 1942, he took part in a competition to kill captive Serbs - prisoners of concentration camps. The rule was simple: the one who kills more will win. In fact, it was a bloody and senseless slaughter, whose analogues are hard to find in world history. Without any moral principles, full of blind rage and cruelty to the Serbs, Brzitsa won a “convincing victory”: during the night he himself sent 1,360 people to the next world. The executioner used a special knife for the killings - serbosek. The cannon was a small curved blade attached to a leather glove. Serbosek was specially designed by order of Pavelic, who wanted to create weapons that could kill the maximum number of captured Serbs."
Before I start my reply, sorry for being so late with it. There were some difficulties, such as I did wrote the reply this morning, a very extensive one, and when I pressed Reply button, it didn't sent it, and of course it disappeared, so this is actually a completely hand re-written one. There were some issues with internet connection as well, but its all fine now, I hope.
So, this second man competing in slaughtering was Petar Brzica? That name sounds familiar to me, but I can't recall from what source. I'm further confused you found that article on a russian website, as you put it. Then the claim Brzica was added among Nazi Germany criminals, which isn't true - he part of Independent State of Croatia. I won't get into the said man's psyche, but as you initiated the background of the entire story behind the founding of the regime in Croatia at the time, I'd like to hold onto that, because I consider it important.
You may disagree with this what I'm about to say, but Serbs carry co-responsibility for coming to that. In this section I'll explain why. Have you heared of 6 January Dictatorship (Croatian: Šestosiječanjska diktatura, Serbian: Шестојануарска диктатура / Šestojanuarska diktatura)? That was one of the events that fueled already unstable political state in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia - before that the assassination in the National Assembly in Belgarde in 1928 preceded it. It is important to note the future leader of Ustaša movement, Dr. Ante Pavelić, was present there as the member of the Croatian Rights Party. But, back to 6 January Dictatorship. It was introduced by the king Aleksandar I. Karađorđević on January 6th 1929 (that's how it gets its name). It included, but was not limited to: absolutist power, persecution of political opponents, ideology of so-called "integral Yugoslavship", Octroyed constitution and other.
Meanwhile in Italy, Dr. Ante Pavelić establishes UHRO, Ustaša - Hrvatska Revolucionarna Organizacija. In English: Ustasha - Croatian Revolutionary Oganization, which will later become known as Ustasha movement. There, he begins training troops at italian military training camps. Situation in Kingdom of Yugoslavia remains practially the same in the following years.
October 10th 1934, king Aleksandar I. Karađorđević goes to Marseille to state visit and is being assassinated by Vlado Černozemski, otherwise Bulgarian descent, who was a member of VMRO (Macedonian: Vnatrešna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija), Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organization. VMRO was closely connected to UHRO, as both supported ideas of establishing independent states that brought them closer together.
When Yugoslavia capitulated in 1941, the Independent State of Croatia is founded and declared. We know it was an ally and "satellite state" of Nazi Germany. Let me review back here: There's no denying that not only Croats were dissatisfied with how they were treated in common country. Of course, there were some individuals or even groups of individuals who so much craved for revenge. Their bitterness was justified and understandable, but their later actions definitely weren't. I already said I do not approve violenece of any kind and by anyone.
And this is the point where we come to the establishment of various concentration camps. One of them being the notorious camp Jasenovac, which was named "Sabirni logor Jasenovac" (Jasenovac concentration camp), but it was also a work camp. It's infamous for its official number of around 70,000 - 80,000 victims, depending on the sources of which some also claim that number reeaches up to 700,000 and even 1,700,000 victims.
Now we come to another crossroad - what's fact and what's fiction. If there is even one innocent victim, it's TOO MUCH, but the research and exhumation of Jasenovac camp were never conducted, at least not throughout. There is a list of allegedly killed people, which, believe it or not, continues to change to this very day. How? I myself believe the list is a pure forgery, because there are no physical evidence of mass liquidations and the changes being made on this list through history to these days. I'll name a couple of examples. One being the fact that there are 'clones' on this list - people with exactly the same name, some repeating from multiply to even dozens of times, of some having only certain information altered so that they aren't completely same, such as place of birth and such. One of those names is Ljuba Radosavljević, being repeated 17 times, all 17 being killed in different parts of Jasenovac (it was divided into sections by numbers). Second example is subsequent addition of names to the list. Let's take for example a man named Stanko Nik, who died in 2012 and then was posthumously added to the list of victims. Current prime minister of Croatia, Andrej Plenković, was at his funeral. Died in 2012 and being accounted as the victim in 1940s - one of the forgeries I've mentioned. I'll name one more example of how else they forged the list. It's adding the names of people who have been killed elsewhere. They put in people who died in Germany, in Poland and many other places I cannot all mention. So much about the list, now to the camp itself. I said earlier the site was never excavated thoroughly and there are almost none to none evidence at all of mass liquidations, only stories and assumptions. 74 years have passed and we still don't know the truth.
My conclusion: first the Serbian rule in first Yugoslavia oppressed all other folks, Croats included, which led to making resistance movements, one of them being Ustasha movement, previously called UHRO. During the war, all sides were committing crimes, Allies and Axis powers and supporters of both alike. We know how the war ended, and there's that fabulous saying: "History is written by the winners." That statement is kinda absolutistic as well, as it doesn't question the veracity of the claims. I prefer the cause-consequnce relationship, as it unequivocally clarifies some things that happened and led to other things. I will always say that if we're talking about consequences, then we must talk about causes too, but that's something people simply choose to ignore, only seeing, hearing and minding what they want. I'm not that kind of person - I'm willing to accept anything as long as it's true and is proven and those proofs are solid and based on (historical) facts, and not on somebody's opinion. I'm most sincerely regretting and condemning the cruel acts and crimes committed by my folk at the expense of others. At the same time I condemn all proven actions committed by others against my people. After all, we were constantly under foreign rule ever since 1102, and NDH, whatever it was, it was also the first breath of freedom for Croatian folk, and every human on this planet knows the freedom is priceless.
There's still more to this topic, so much in fact that I couldn't write it all down here, so if you want to continue chatting, just say. I'm in.
Well, I wouldn't say "nobody". I heared certain people from some countries, modern day Germany being one of them, doing some "research" of their own in collaboration with both our, croatian, and/or serbian researchers.
Now that you mentioned Auschwitz, there are controversies about it as well. Did you see that interview with some priest in Germany who had been interviewed by jewish journalist, about Auschwitz and its apparent "non-possession" of gas chambers? The priest stated reasonable arguments in the video, I'll try to post it for you.
I just wanna make a parallel between Jasenovac and Auschwitz. It's very interesting most structures in Auschwitz were preserved to this day, unlike in Jasenovac where almost all of them were destroyed, but not by NDH authorities - by partisans, so that the world cannot see there were no mass executions there. No proof is better than proof that kills your claim, huh? That's what people are saying these days.Here's the video I told you about. Friend, I mean that - FRIEND, please take a look and make your own judgement.
Nothing regarding the myths. Had a debate about possible new myth, but it turned out it was already known one. I wanted to exchange few words with you. One topic being this: I never saw that version of Serbian flag you have on staff page, so I was hoping you could explain it to me. Currently I'm off games - got 'suspended' from PSN for saying bullies and retards belong to cemetery. Little too rough statement, I admit, but being classified as "hate speech"? I'm surprised they didn't mention a word about 'call for violence', which leads me to think I was only banned for saying bullies are bullies and that retards are retards. What do you think about all this? The least it is being strange.
Its the flag of Serbia when it was a kingdom, I don't know about its history, I only picked it because it looked good. Well you're right it was a rough statement, but they probably banned you for that retard part, as retard is mostly applied to people who are mentally retarded.
After I've banned you for 2 weeks, instead of changing yourself you created a bunch of sockpuppets and harassed me. I blocked you for an infinite amount of time from this wiki, it would be ridiculous to keep a troll like you here on this wiki. Bye.
Andrey recently contacted me on Facebook and asked me to post this final message on his wall, so here:
The recent drama here on the wiki has been pressuring me, it didn't start now, but a long time ago. But I've said it numerous times, this time i'm not joking, its time to say goodbye to this wiki, it finally turned into trash, with incompetent admins who will look everywhere just to cause drama, and block anyone who will disagree with them, or debunks their hoax findings. Good luck to anyone who thinks they'll have a future here, but it isn't worth trying. You can find me on other wikis. Thanks.
You should behave politely, calmly and reasonably, in order to keep the focus on improving the wiki and to help maintain a pleasant editing environment.
Please read this Policy again. Your Comment.
(The comment is only available to admins).
This is last warning, if you continue to do behave the same, then I have to block you to ensure wiki's pleasant environment.
You are allowed to criticise the article/myth, but you have to be civil when doing this.
It's pretty much impossible to do that, considering literally any criticism at all on the wiki is immediately labeled as incivility/not assuming good faith and the user is warned, banned, and their message is deleted.
If you block me, it will be considered an unfair block and I might have to post a RfD.
You are allowed to criticise the article/myth, but you have to be civil when doing this.
I was civil, can you please show me where I wasn't civil?
For that, I would need to restore your comment. But, I don't see the need to. I think it's self-evident that saying stupid is considered being incivil. Being civil means you can criticise it without necessarily saying this word. The comment you left now is perfectly okay.